39 replies to this topic

[Hugo]

I have just seen a video of the marshals at the Sepang GP trying to get Simoncelli off the track on a stretcher, and them actually TRIPPING and FALLING with the stretcher. If you want to watch, here is the link (sorry if anyone thinks this is in bad form, Dan please feel free to edit this post).
Now, I don't believe it made any difference in this case (nothing could have saved him), but it could well make the difference between a tragedy and a bad situation in the future.

This same marshalling team failed to properly notify the Moto2 riders of dodgy track conditions in FP1, and may well have decided the title there.

WTF? Why is it that motogp is the pinnacle of this sport, and yet riders are subject to such amateurish behavior from such vital people as track marshals?

Isn't it time to have a fixed team of highly-skilled, highly-trained people who travel around with motogp? If the Clinica Mobile people are always the same (aren't they?), I see no reason why this shouldn't be the case with other emergency people...

Edit: I see that Tobes has pre-empted my outrage on facebook. He posted a link to the blog Two Wheels.

Edited by Hugo, 25 October 2011 - 01:12 PM.

[Gary]

Where do they find these buffoons? While it was not the unbelievable stupidity of handling Kato like a sack of potatoes, these fools should be able to carry an injured man without dropping him...

[Mario]

In my opinion the fact is, it's been "only" the track marshalls who transported him to the waiting ambulance and not the medics itself.
I think the marshalls only learn how to wave the flags and transport bikes out of the gravel.

[Simone]

I had watched that video yesterday but couldn't find the will to post it... too sad for me.
Besided the obvious and infuriating part of the rescuers dropping Marco, watching his dad get over there with the scooter to help them load him on the ambulance was just overwhelming.

[tz250w]

watching his dad get over there with the scooter to help them load him on the ambulance was just overwhelming.

Yup, I didn't need to see that.


Shoya was dropped in the same way as well.

As for "marshalls", I fully agree with Hugo's suggestion of having a dedicated team. Even if only two or three per station, one to direct and the other(s) to slap heads of the locals that are not by any stretch of the imagination "professionals"

Not sure what they're doing these days up here, but in the past the "marshalls" didn't even get paid. Just a couple meals and a front seat to the action. Only a handful were actually trained.

Edited by tz250w, 25 October 2011 - 03:18 PM.

[Sharp]

Please don't be too quick to pass judgement on the marshals they have no real training in carrying a "scoop stretcher" which is Dorna's fault as I've mentioned before.This particular device is an aluminium stretcher very light that is designed to seperate and pinch the patient from underneath so the patient's body isn't lifted and "rolled" onto the stretcher.There is sometimes an alternate technique for "rolling a patient" onto it which is what it appears they did.The problem with this incident is the one marshal in yellow is trying to carry the stretcher and talk on the hand held radio which is a no-no since you cannot use both hands to carry it effectively.The other "mistake" is he is not back far enough at the corner which is where you are supposed to hold the stretcher for balance, we call it "four pointing" which has a carrier on each corner.It looks like they were using 6 points. The key to not dropping is to not start running and causing the others to try and keep your pace while carrying a patient. It happens all of the time, someone's pace is out of synch especially in sand and it's going to happen. Keep in mind these were not the medics just marshals who volunteer their services for the event.Try to imagine carrying Marco's body with obvious trauma and in the back of your mind you know that millions of people are watching your every move.The adrenaline is pumping when you are lifting that stretcher.Never run with a stretcher is what we are taught to avoid dropping the patient. You want to get to the ambulance but you have to get there together.

[Mario]

Not sure what they're doing these days up here, but in the past the "marshalls" didn't even get paid. Just a couple meals and a front seat to the action. Only a handful were actually trained.

I've never worked as a marshall. But I helped on the grandstand for several years for Sachsenring GP. I got 15€ per day and a nice view to the Start Finish straight. But I wasn't there for the money. I was there because I love that sport!

[Graystroke]

I haven't seen the video (and I'm not going to either!). I understand the reason for bringing this up....but the sad truth is Marco was gone instantly was he not?

[Hugo]

Vern, I think the harsh (but fair?) response to your point is: if you are not sufficiently trained to be a marshal, then don't volunteer to be one, or be prepared to face the consequences should something bad happen. I agree that the fault is by far mostly with Dorna, but these people are also somewhat accountable -- their volunteering for the job is, in a sense, a statement that they can handle the situation. These guys couldn't.

It is not the same as, say, me driving down the road and being the only person at the scene of an accident, trying to help out, and f'ing up somehow. These people were there for a purpose, and they failed.

But the fact that these people couldn't even execute the (I guess?) very basics of emergency care speaks volumes of the lack of training they've received. Dorna and the Sepang track really need to be held accountable for this. This is absolutely unacceptable.

[Tigertex]

If it's that tricky, the responsibility should not be left in the hands of untrained volunteers. A dedicated crew would be one solution but it appears to me that there are also some obstruction problems at Sepang. That ambulance should have been able to get right up beside the rider not park some distance away. The whole task of carrying the rider across the grass and hefting him over the guardrail should be completely unrequired.

I realize this won't bring Marco back but it would help cope with the heartbreak of the situation to see some improvements made.

[Matt]

If I remember right, they dropped Shoya also, right?

edit: max beat me to it.

I think they only have one "medic" in each corner, right? And the rest of the people are just volunteers hoping to watch a race for free.

Dorna needs to hire people, train them properly, and then bring them from track to track instead of hiring locals.

Edited by Matt, 25 October 2011 - 04:54 PM.

[Gary]

If I remember right, they dropped Shoya also, right?

Yes. These people need more training.

[Jordan L.]

CART, and now IndyCar, have a travelling team. And it works a treat, bar a DOA case, such as Wheldon.

Dorna needs to take a hard look at that concept.

[Lou Dude]

NHRA have a traveling safety crew as well.
Makes a lot of sense if you ask me.

[jose_jimenez]

I haven't seen the video (and I'm not going to either!). I understand the reason for bringing this up....but the sad truth is Marco was gone instantly was he not?

Excerpt from his father:

Paolo arrived at the scene of the crash as Marco was being lifted onto a stretcher and carried to the ambulance. He says he had called to his son, but Marco was already dead. He says he also bears no ill will to the bearers, who fumbled the stretcher on their way to the ambulance.

"I was thereabouts, but Marco was dead already. I was 10 metres away, but Marco was already dead, it changed nothing.

"I helped them: when they got back up and passed the stretcher over to my side of the guard rail I took the stretcher to place it in the ambulance and held Marco's hand and called him 'Ciao Marco', but he was gone already.

"There was nothing that could be done. Nothing would have changed in that case. As for the rest, maybe more (attention) is needed, but these people try to do their best, so it's useless... But in our case Marco died on impact.

"They say God summons the best to heaven. I don't know. I wish that's how it is."

[Jordan L.]

NHRA have a traveling safety crew as well.
Makes a lot of sense if you ask me.

Another advantage also is that the crew knows these guys, their medical history, conditions, etc, etc.

[Gary]

From Marco's father, stating that he feels that the situation made no difference - but I don't really think that this is the point:

http://www.twowheels...rescue-incident

I'm sure that it made no difference, Marco was already gone - but what about next time?

[tz250w]

Minno, my dad was talking about the dedicated Indy crew the other day on the phone. Definitely the way to go. But they are basically a domestic series. Do you know if the same crew travels to Japan and Brazil or not? And if so, how many races are held overseas (my obvious lack of interest in 4 wheels showing through...).

With dorna, it probably just comes down to money... Flying a fully trained (and they would have to be paid full time, for the most part) crew around the world to each event would cost them. Probably just not in their logistics...

That's why I suggest the "special forces" approach. A couple team leaders for each station (number varies, depending on track...) to train the indigenous... err, locals and keep them in line. Perhaps a pool of reservists that train together (after being qualified) and make themselves available in advance for races in their region. That would eliminate the need for full time (annual) pay and maybe cut down on transportation.

They could be the advance team, arriving at the circuit and meeting with the volunteers to run through drills and map the rescue routes. Then on race weekend, they would be fully in charge of their "team". Directing any handling of injured riders and coordinating with the medics and race control.


Rambling again. Surely they already have something similar in place (one must hope...). If they do, it definitely needs to be improved.

Edited by tz250w, 26 October 2011 - 12:12 AM.

[Jordan L.]

Max, where ever CART went, and where ever IndyCar goes, the same guys go. Japan, Brasil, Germany...they even did ones in the UK and a one-off at Assen. And each time, the exact same crew was there.

Dr. Steve Olvey, who headed up the crew, wrote a book on it. If you search for him on Google, you'll find it. It's not hard to do; it's just a few more guys to jet around the world. But in the event of a serious accident, it would make a world of difference.

[damo]

Very, very, unfortunate martialing. Obviously they were just trying to get Marco to the ambulance as quickly as possible but 4 people sprinting over uneven ground whilst carrying a critically injured man seems really dumb.